state of the SF scene observations
i've noticed over the last few years that things are getting all sortsa weird for techno/house/EDM in SF. mostly because i feel the scene has been polarized into a few different categories.
the moldschool scene where alot of great parties happen but they are still essentially the same party to make the 30 something ravers feel like they are apart of what makes the scene great.. yet they don't allow a cross pollination of newcomers to be welcomed into their inner circle. essentially distancing themselves from what is really going on.
the bayraves scene where a lot of naivete' happens and some underground shady crap goes on unchecked and leads to burnouts and frustration for young ravers who really want to make a difference in the scene in total.
then there's burners who just are down for about anything but.. they are fickle and are into weird things that don't really make sense to me. is there something in that silica dust i don't know about?
then we get on to the neo techno / nouvelle micro house scene where people are trying to make waves by bringing house back to SF. that's fine, but we've seen that over and over again in SF for so long.. even way back in 2001 when forest green was doing organized chaos in SF. yes, i do respect house when it challenges its own borders, but not when it sticks to a comfy formula (ok got my nice house high hats soul vox, swing set to 65%, old disco sample.. ok did i forget anything? oh wait there's that nice white noise sound that the kids like, i'll put that in. it won't date the track at all). this scene also possibly spurns the notion of the underground and the word 'rave' cause they feel it threatening for some reason. when really its actually a very valid part of what SF EDM culture has always been about. what i've despised the most about this scene is the who the hell are you attitude. like for example people are like 'if 'ive never heard of you or seen you on a flyer, or you can't benefit me as a dj or producer, you aren't relevant.' they totally eschew any notion that unity and general respect are an essential part of the EDM culture to advance as a whole.
then there are the confused techno heads who think its 1998. they say 'where did all the hard techno go?' without realizing that hard techno is still with us, it's just become more digital and way less gear based. plus it has allowed for more diversity. which is good, but they need the comfort in knowing that the music they've spent over 10 years collecting is still valid (bad).
last are the real muther f_ckin heads who actually know wtf is up. i respect these people the most cause they have taken their time to look into all aspects of the electronic music scene in SF. they have actually wanted to integrate with it rather than bucking the trend and creating their own little island within the SF scene where only the privileged can be apart of it. i honestly think that if you want longevity in the SF scene you need to understand its fundamentals, its roots and history. be willing to go the extra mile and find that talent that is lurking around the corner. go out to a rave where you have never heard of the djs. go out to a club that features somebody you don't know. the real heads that i've run into have minds as open as the sky and are truly fascinated by this new scene they have come to inhabit.
cause let's face it 75-89% of the people in SF have come from somewhere else. to come to a city and not expect that you should radically change your viewpoints like a total 180 is just folly. if you are willing to commit to such a colossal change in your life, then you should be willing to commit to be more open to the ideas that new city you inhabit. you should be open to what that city has to offer as well as willing to make the effort to be apart of it; to add to the diversity and richness of it.
i've lived in and around the city of SF for all my life and there are a few others of us who have seen this too. i think with this new decade rapidly approaching we have a good new start and a good amount of momentum to really make a difference in making sure that the SF techno /house culture comes out on top as a worldwide force for original music, for the likes of which the world has never before seen. i think in order for that to happen, people should be open, willing to commit to diversity, willing to respect, come together in an appreciation for unity, and acknowledge the history of their scene before going forward and repeating it.
my rant is over. i really want us all to come together as one and appreciate each other as a whole... the new, the old, the outsiders, and the insiders. we are all a big family. if we hurt our family then we become weak. i hope my message of unity comes through without seemingly like i'm a hopeless dreamer (but i'm not the only one). if some of this stings you should ask yourself why.. i'm not trying to diss, not by any respect but rather commenting on what things i've seen. i welcome you to prove me wrong.
Sean Ocean
DEF
what ive noticed about the scene is that people like to generalize and complain about it instead of having a good time. :wink:
I'm having a great time! so many quality events and people! much better than the rest of the country IMO, you should definitely be happy to have this at all.
Mattie Bowen/Mossmoss | Racecarprod. | NLMX/Nightlight Music.
www.myspace.com/mattiemossmoss
Hey Sean,
There is a lot of sub text in your rant which I think is much more important to look at. What happened to you personally to feel this way and how have those experiences shaped what you have wanted to achieve within the scene?
I guess I was kind of confused by exactly what you wanted because you were encouraging unity yet ripping on cultivated groups. It's very easy to blame others and what they have done wrong but the only thing you can change is you, yourself. Look at what you want in the scene and try to create that yourself.
Honestly, I don't think these groups will come together strictly because they are separated by musical boundaries. Thus their social groups are centered around those same musical tastes. Of course there is going to be polarization after time because the very act of being a DJ is being picky about music. Apply that to social circles and you get quite a cyclical effect. I'm not saying that this is copacetic, but that this is how it is.
So, Sean, again, what are YOU trying to achieve in the scene and how can YOU change to make that happen. You aren't going to be able to change the masses. Yes, it is an ideal and it takes a VERY long time to see any kind of progression in thought patterns.
There are those "heads" out there which you share a like mind with as you mentioned. Perhaps, you should start there and surround yourself with those who want to see more cohesion. Start the collaboration in your own backyard...or perhaps you are on your way with DEFSF? :wink:
http//www.limaconmusic.com
http//www.myspace.com/limaconhatesmyspace
- Pokerflat - Resopal - Force Inc. - Auralism - Thoughtless -
hmmm not quite sure what that rant is about...
I just go out to hear music when i feel like it and its usually when someone big is in town. I have to work, and im in my mid 30s, so going out 2 times a week is more than enough..
But yeah i remember the raves days when you felt all that gooey PLURiness and all those silly clothes.
To be honest, my scene isn't in a club.
I guess I was kind of confused by exactly what you wanted because you were encouraging unity yet ripping on cultivated groups. It's very easy to blame others and what they have done wrong but the only thing you can change is you, yourself. Look at what you want in the scene and try to create that yourself.
Honestly, I don't think these groups will come together strictly because they are separated by musical boundaries. Thus their social groups are centered around those same musical tastes. Of course there is going to be polarization after time because the very act of being a DJ is being picky about music. Apply that to social circles and you get quite a cyclical effect. I'm not saying that this is copacetic, but that this is how it is.
So, Sean, again, what are YOU trying to achieve in the scene and how can YOU change to make that happen. You aren't going to be able to change the masses. Yes, it is an ideal and it takes a VERY long time to see any kind of progression in thought patterns.
There are those "heads" out there which you share a like mind with as you mentioned. Perhaps, you should start there and surround yourself with those who want to see more cohesion. Start the collaboration in your own backyard...or perhaps you are on your way with DEFSF? :wink:
i've been working on trying to change the way people think about unity in the scene for more than five years with DEF. only in the last few years has it been so polarized. my personal opinion is that the more people isolate and forget what each scene is about then the more alienated and bitchy the scene becomes. a true cross pollination of the scenes is really what the post is about. i was merely pointing out the faults of each scene and what i've seen are the stumbling blocks towards unifying the scene in general.
the mere fact that we are talking about this is proof enough that i want to see things change and the fact that i am speaking about it is my attempt to raise this issue in order to resolve it.
i am really a cheerleader for the scene rather than a hater of it. but if i see bullshit.. i'm going to call it as i see it.
respect to limacon for a great reply. `;)
--
Visit http//www.defsf.com
west coast techno articles, news, links, music & events
defsf-announce-subscribe@defsf.com
My main complaint about the SF scene is:
First off, let me say that I love our local artists. They are rad. In fact, I think they are so rad that they deserve LONGER TIMESLOTS!!!
I think that too many events around here have a jam-packed lineup, and all the artists only get to play for an hour... I miss the days of marathon DJ sets and hearing people tag for hours on end.
Thank you Kontrol for bringing back the idea of a marathon set with the Dan Bell party this weekend!! That is precisely what I miss about partying in the midwest.
Maybe instead of having a lineup with 6 local artists who all play for an hour, I'd like to see a lineup with 2 local artists who play for 3 hours each, or something like that. Especially when we're talking about DJ sets, I don't think an hour is quite long enough for a DJ to fully establish a mood. When a party has a huge lineup, by the time a DJ has established their mood, its time to switch to the next person and then the mood gets totally changed.
So... that's all. Just wanna hear more of my friends, longer timeslots, maybe not a jam-packed lineup with short sets all the time.
Everything else is fuckin rad tho!
www.monocle-music.com
www.myspace.com/monoclemusik
First off, let me say that I love our local artists. They are rad. In fact, I think they are so rad that they deserve LONGER TIMESLOTS!!!
I think that too many events around here have a jam-packed lineup, and all the artists only get to play for an hour... I miss the days of marathon DJ sets and hearing people tag for hours on end.
Thank you Kontrol for bringing back the idea of a marathon set with the Dan Bell party this weekend!! That is precisely what I miss about partying in the midwest.
Maybe instead of having a lineup with 6 local artists who all play for an hour, I'd like to see a lineup with 2 local artists who play for 3 hours each, or something like that. Especially when we're talking about DJ sets, I don't think an hour is quite long enough for a DJ to fully establish a mood. When a party has a huge lineup, by the time a DJ has established their mood, its time to switch to the next person and then the mood gets totally changed.
So... that's all. Just wanna hear more of my friends, longer timeslots, maybe not a jam-packed lineup with short sets all the time.
Everything else is fuckin rad tho!
sign me up!! :)
Mattie Bowen/Mossmoss | Racecarprod. | NLMX/Nightlight Music.
www.myspace.com/mattiemossmoss
i have to say...coming from a detroit scene that i got to watch experience a pinnacle and then a rapid descension only to move here and find a disconnected scene (or obviously one i wasn't familiar with...I'm quite happy with how it's come together. I like that everyone supports everyone here, and I've yet to experience any type of negativity associated with it. Having said that, I realize I'm not involved in the events and merely see everything from a patron point of view, so maybe i'm missing something that, as limacon eluded to, may have effected you.
I kind of feel like i fall into a couple of your categories above...as I don't really think I fit in just one...but that's me.
In any event, I guess I can only thank everyone who throws events and thank all of the djs and live acts for being so good cause...if it weren't for them, we wouldn't have what we have.
mp
yeah, even tho this thread is about problems with the scene, i have to say this is really a great scene. Great DJs, great shows, lots of venues some with great sound systems, and an audience to support all of it. There is so much great music in this city. Count your blessings :)
i love the scene, don't get me wrong. i just wish that more people would get to know every aspect of it. i have gotten to know the entire scene very well and now i have a greater appreciation for it. if you like what you're hearing now, just wait till you really start digging. there's SO much more. `;)
i think people stop short when they find something they like cause its comfy and nothing really ever changes. much like how every little scene i described is stifling itself. the key to breaking that trend is to stir shit up.
let's go nuts people!
(dimpled stimpy chin, nodding approval)
sean.
--
Visit http//www.defsf.com
west coast techno articles, news, links, music & events
defsf-announce-subscribe@defsf.com
Big ups to Christina for longer timeslots....that would be my main complaint! ;)
Clint Stewart (Auralism Records, Nightlight Music)
clint@auralismrecords.com
www.myspace.com/clintstewartsounds
www.blue-collarent.com
word on the timeslots... I hate seeing 8 names on a flyer....
www.myspace.com/moniker415
www.222hydesf.com
www.myspace.com/222hyde
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/pages/San-Francisco-CA/222-Hyde/886030...
another question to ask is... do these other branches of the scene really even WANT to achieve "integration"?
e.g. i recently saw an online flyer for that SomaTech party you were playing at Sean, and thought "wow, a night of HARD techno, i could totally be into that and i'm sure some other people might check that out." i grabbed the .jpg and added it to the events calendar i put up on myspace, only to have the event organizer contact me and ask me to take it down cuz they wanted to keep it "word of mouth only". now that i understand that the space was really small, i guess i can see why, but it does beg the question, are events like these even hoping to broaden their audience? or are they just looking to have a good time with some like-minded friends?
regarding set times, it's kind of a double edged sword. more people on a flyer = more people that know and like them coming = more people spreading the word = more hype in general (if they lineup is good) = more people at the party and thus more financial success and a more hoppin' party. so in a way, proper "artistry" can be somewhat at odds with a smart business ethic.
with an event like kontrol, we have 4 residents, a headliner or two, and usually a local guest. we do this because we really want to expose as many people as we can over time, and who knows how long we'll be able to do that. one thing we really do try to do tho, is at LEAST give our visiting headliners a good long slot to get into their groove (e.g. Paco's 4 hour set last month, Cassy's 3 hours coming up, and of course the Dan Bell marathon). i figure since you've gone thru so much trouble to get them out here and pay them as much as you do, let them play! the residents seems to be on board with that. they are almost always willing to play shorter sets in order for the guest talent to play longer. i think in cases like that, it really helps to have residents or book talent that can work well together. that way it's not an abrupt transition of mood and style every hour.
my feeling in a nutshell is this... (1) don't book more talent than you need to get a decent crowd. (2) make sure the way you program the night will allow for a smooth flow of energy. (3) never book a DJ for less than an hour (minimum!) unless its some crazy Klusterfuck-type thing. and (4) step aside and let the talent that people came out to see get a good and lengthy time slot!
a bunch of my friends in minneapolis have been doing a weekly lately called Shelter. each week its just "one DJ + one large soundsystem". their tagline reads as follows: "This night is not about the progression of multiple DJs. this night is about the journey, depth, and story of just one." sick. i'd love to see something like that happen around here. shit, maybe i'll get one started, and stick with the "From the Beginning to the End" theme. ;)
---->gb
p.s. damn, what the hell is Dan gonna play in 8 hours? i'm sure he'll get to pull some shit you'd never hear in a "regular" peak time headliner set. pretty psyched to hear especially the early and late portions.
www.facebook.com/bird415 | www.myspace.com/bird415
www.kontrolsf.com | www.myspace.com/kontrolsf
www.afterglowsf.com | www.myspace.com/afterglowsf
---->gb
Please please please please pretty please OMG I need this!!
Cheap, like $5-7 entry, maybe the occasional headliner for more money, let the locals tag team and rock it marathon style, and I'm there with bells on!
www.monocle-music.com
www.myspace.com/monoclemusik
e.g. i recently saw an online flyer for that SomaTech party you were playing at Sean, and thought "wow, a night of HARD techno, i could totally be into that and i'm sure some other people might check that out." i grabbed the .jpg and added it to the events calendar i put up on myspace, only to have the event organizer contact me and ask me to take it down cuz they wanted to keep it "word of mouth only". now that i understand that the space was really small, i guess i can see why, but it does beg the question, are events like these even hoping to broaden their audience? or are they just looking to have a good time with some like-minded friends?
see the oldschool is already like this. they think that they are keeping it real so to say but they are so exclusive that they shoot themselves in the foot. they give off a weird vibe like "if i don't know you i should be paranoid.." kind of thing. they have their reasons for being exclusive it's just to avoid messing with the law or ignorance, but they should be more welcoming to newcomers who show an interest in benefitting their scene.
the main issue with you posting somatech (and i think you meant well by doing that) is that there are alot of people who think undergrounds should not be on myspace and parties shouldn't be reposted without permission; that's kind of an underground SF rule. the result is the spot being blown up and inevitably a bust. such is what happened with somatech4. i am just thinking that kontrol has such a wide audience and you have such a big following that people are just going to naturally blow up the spot if you mention it. best to post something like that on a private list where you knew who signed up.
that's why its good that you've mentioned that you keep kontrol's list only for posting UGs and regular events. i think that you have handled your dan bell party way better by doing presale only. this way no money or anything is exchanged at the door and cops don't think its some crack house with amplified sound. also nothing sold, no ins and outs would be very keen idea. drink tickets included with the cost of the door. hell, maybe you should just go BYOB or just make it a ritzy absinthe party. (BTW you better get a recording of that dan bell party or else!!)
but getting back on point, branches of the scene wanting to achieve integration..? well i don't know.. but my issue is with people who are not open to the idea of something else beyond what their eyes can see. do you, as a scene head not want to find out what's going on behind the proverbial door #3? if that means that there are people who hate finding out about new things and other aspects of the scene other than their own, then yeah, nothing will ever integrate. but it's at least worth a shot to give it the once over and get familiar with their tactics and customs.
you may be right mr bird. sometimes people don't want to integrate and maybe its no use preaching... i've said enough about it, it's really up to the people to decide if they choose to be open minded. can't change public opinion, you can only give it some options. or as the others in this thread have suggested, lead the way by example. "what are you doing for unity in your scene?" etc.
let's go out and party.
sean.
--
Visit http//www.defsf.com
west coast techno articles, news, links, music & events
defsf-announce-subscribe@defsf.com
also, those teeth on your avatar are creepy.
www.facebook.com/bird415 | www.myspace.com/bird415
www.kontrolsf.com | www.myspace.com/kontrolsf
www.afterglowsf.com | www.myspace.com/afterglowsf
I like it! Don't have a late night venue slot, but may have to try doing a 4-hour single booking Faktion party, might be interesting. Wanna try it out for the 12/26 party? :)
Of course, the question is, whom to book for something like that... Every DJ wants a longer set, but how many can actually bring and keep an audience all night?
regarding set times, it's kind of a double edged sword. more people on a flyer = more people that know and like them coming = more people spreading the word = more hype in general (if they lineup is good) = more people at the party and thus more financial success and a more hoppin' party.
Is this why the Dan Bell party is sold out? :P
Just sayin'!!! ;)
www.monocle-music.com
www.myspace.com/monoclemusik
i cant remember the last time i played 2 hours in SF. sucks huge ones. i like to play at 3 or more hours out of town :(
a
Alland Byallo
Nightlight Music | [KONTROL] | Forward SF
definitely prefer the longer sets, where you can actually build a set up and drop it down, ebs and flows and all that good stuff...
I miss rocking mid-west after parties for extended amounts of time...
I feel like i get a set going(for an hour), then bam! next dj....
(not that i dont like an hour, I love an hour. or anytime at all. even ten minutes at klusterfuck!)
Mattie Bowen/Mossmoss | Racecarprod. | NLMX/Nightlight Music.
www.myspace.com/mattiemossmoss
OK, it's settled then.
DEAR SF PROMOTERS: Please have less names on the lineup, and give everyone longer sets.
Love,
SF partygoers
:pirat:
www.monocle-music.com
www.myspace.com/monoclemusik
a
+1 on wanting to see alland play a 3 hour set, even if he's not the headliner.
http://www.monocle-music.com/
http://www.myspace.com/monoclemusik
http://www.myspace.com/coupler300
Though we usually give guests @ BMT at least an hour and a half to 2 hours, I think sets that are over 2 hours long are too boring (no matter who's playing!). Personally, I like the contrast of a different dj taking over. I am curious to see how dan bell pulls it off, what excites me about that is that he will be playing different genres, not just what he always plays 8 hours straight. As long as the dj takes you on a journey, i can get down with longer slots, but 3 hours of the same ol gets boring quick.
http//www.myspace.com/djrazvan
http//www.myspace.com/blackmarkettechno
Well as a promoter you are the authority over what kind of format you want your party to have...
But were you bored when Reference played for 3 hours at BMT the other night? Cuz I wasn't!!
Were you bored if you ever went to one of Richie Hawtin's Control parties at City Club in Detroit where he played for 14 hours straight? I wasn't!
Were you bored if you made it to the Paxahau 8-year anniversary afterparty at the Works where Matthew Dear and Ryan Elliott proceeded to bang it out until 3PM in the afternoon? I definitely was not......
(just playing devil's advocate here)
www.monocle-music.com
www.myspace.com/monoclemusik
If a DJ is boring after 3 hours, then they are probably just a boring dj. it's as simple as that.
http://www.monocle-music.com/
http://www.myspace.com/monoclemusik
http://www.myspace.com/coupler300
+1
Mattie Bowen/Mossmoss | Racecarprod. | NLMX/Nightlight Music.
www.myspace.com/mattiemossmoss
But were you bored when Reference played for 3 hours at BMT the other night? Cuz I wasn't!!
Were you bored if you ever went to one of Richie Hawtin's Control parties at City Club in Detroit where he played for 14 hours straight? I wasn't!
Were you bored if you made it to the Paxahau 8-year anniversary afterparty at the Works where Matthew Dear and Ryan Elliott proceeded to bang it out until 3PM in the afternoon? I definitely was not......
(just playing devil's advocate here)
god, 14 hours of richie is DEFINITELY boring.
http//www.myspace.com/djrazvan
http//www.myspace.com/blackmarkettechno
Not back then it wasn't!!
This was pre-contact-lens, pre-techno-beard, pre-making-out-with-Sven Richie. And it was rad. There were even pyrotechnics.
RICHIE B.C.: BEFORE CONTACTS
www.monocle-music.com
www.myspace.com/monoclemusik
Not back then it wasn't!!
This was pre-contact-lens, pre-techno-beard, pre-making-out-with-Sven Richie. And it was rad. There were even pyrotechnics.
RICHIE B.C.: BEFORE CONTACTS
i've not had the honor to see him then :(
saw him do a 4 hour set before that I was not impressed with...
http//www.myspace.com/djrazvan
http//www.myspace.com/blackmarkettechno
a
I forget, did we get you the full 2 hours back at Faktion? I remember we were still figuring out how to setup all the visuals gear back then so it might have been a late start. Even if we did, that's way too long to not get you a long set.
If we do it again, I'm gonna maybe strip the visuals down. These new macs have enough DSP power that something that follows the audio feed is way better than fuckin windows media player visualizer.
I could keep starting Faktion at 9, maybe give the DJs the choice of 3 hours open or 2 hours closing. Need to figure out how to make that work to actually pay the DJs what they're worth, though. Thinking the door support isn't really there, but maybe I'm wrong.